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Moderated by : Eva Rosenberg  mailto:eva@workinghumor.com

Assisted By : Gunjan Saraf   mailto:gunjan@workinghumor.com

7th August  2002    #     Issue 71
Forgive me for the long letter. I didn't have time to write a short one.
~ George Bernard Shaw*


Moderator's Comment -
                                   ~ Gunjan

The Other Moderator's Comment
                                 ~ Eva


Speaker Marketing Tip
                                    ~ from Tom Antion


Why I Post / Don't Post
                                       ~ I-Sales

A great Reason to not post (or is it?)
                                       ~ Arik / Gunjan

Another 2c worth from g !!
                                      ~ Gunjan

Writing and Thinking!!
                                      ~ The Doc


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Moderator's Message

Hi LaughMates,

I've been waiting to bring this train of thought mainstage for
the past few weeks but it's been upstaged for some reason
or the other every week.

This week, I'm going to close my eyes to all other things
that desperately require our attention and keep them focused
(no jokes about the effect of closed eyes being focused
upstage please) on the point 'Posting to discussion groups.'

In I-Sales John Counsel brought it up and I thought it was
very interesting. Naturally we'll share an idea or two from
I-Sales, but also some related discussion (and some which
were not really meant to be related) bring some interesting
insights. We would naturally be most interested in knowing
if you have a better reason for not posting.

Dunk them in here -
mailto:posts@workinghumor.com?Subject=Great Reasons

So without further ado, here's I-Laugh #71

[Sorry, just a wee bit of ado! Its regarding the star next to
Bernard Shaw's name for the quotation that we started with.
I remembered that quotation, thought it was apt and that I
could add a smart a@#$ comment like .... "if you don't have
time to send us short letters send us your long ones and we'll
trim and edit them on your behalf".

>From memory I thought Twain had said it so to double check
I headed to www.twainquotes.com . It wasn't there ! As I find
twainquotes quite reliable I thought I must be mistaken on who
said it. I headed off to google and did a search for quotations
"long letter" "short letter". The top ten matches all had this same
quote with a couple of words here and there. However the
attributions was a different ball game altogether.

Site 1 - Chinese Scholar
Site 2 - Mark Twain
Site 3  - Oscar Wilde
Site 4 - NA (Site Down)
Site 5 - George Bernard Shaw
Site 6 - No attribution
Site 7 - Attributed to George Bernard Shaw
Site 8 - Voltaire
(Two sites were offshoots of the above sites so I ignored them)

So, George Bernard Shaw wins by a solitary vote!
(The above people along with Churchill and Dickens
are among your best bets if you remember a quote but
not it's author. You can always blame in on one of these
guys .... or Mae West, Gabor or Bombeck for the girls ! ;-)]

With Best Wishes,
Many a true word is spoken in jest.

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Jest in Literature (A) - lit-subscribe@topica.com


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The Other Moderator's Comment

Dear LaughMates,

As long as we're on the theme of posting to groups, let me drop in
my two cents worth. (I am sure that's what Gunjan was hoping for
when he set up this theme.<g>)

I'll admit, that since I've taken on faaaaarrrr too  much work, I don't
post to many discussion groups that I don't actively operate anymore.
And that's a real shame. Why? Well, since I'm kind of the old lady of
discussion groups, let me tell you what I see that people get out of
posting, shall I?

1) You already know about the potential business benefits, right?
(Just last week, TaxMama got a new corporate client from India. I
thought he had come from 'the Internet.' Turned out that he was referred
by David Gendron of http://www.valis.org   a HelpDesk member from
waaay back.)

2) You can get information and learn things. (Working on my book, many of
you have given me feedback and opinions - and some wonderful help and

3) Ego - yeah! It's great for your ego. You get to see your name in print,
you can point to it (and link to it) and look like an expert.  Too cool!

4) The best part about posting? You make friends. People know you. Even
if you never meet them in person, these are people who actually understand
your language (unlike your family and 'real' friends) and what you're about.
You have folks who root for you when you try something new; commiserate
when you have a problem; come up with solutions or ideas, when you're stuck.
You really do have community. (One of the reasons I spend so much time at
my keyboard is responding to private correspondence from friends I've made

5) Oh yes, there's one other benefit - you get to find good restaurants. A
few weeks ago, we had an informal 'HelpMeet' in the San Fernando Valley,
CA with just a few of the 'girls' I'd been speaking with. At the last
Virginia Lawrence http://www.cognitext.com  suggested a different
An through the magic of the Internet, it took seconds to get everyone to
and show up at the right place. I've been back there FOUR times
since (even had Rob Frankel meet me there last week).

Seriously, though, you may just find that you have friends locally. Right
around the corner from you, even. (Virginia, it turns out, lives within
distance; Pam Gram http://jyt.com is a 5 minute drive, etc....) And it is SO
nice to sit and chat with someone whose eyes don't glaze over when you
discuss your site, or your business.

6) The WORST thing about not posting? You feel like you're part of the
community. You know us. You feel close to us. You feel you know us.
But, if you ever need anything or want to reach out - you're a total
stranger to us. We don't know you. You're one of those invisible people
with whom we've never connected.

The fact is, my love, you're DELUDING yourself. You're not really part
of the community if no one knows you exist. (Kind of like, if a tree falls
in the woods and there's no one there to hear it, is the male really wrong?)

So, SPEAK UP! Even if it's just to say, "Hi, I'm here and I'm listening."
BE a part of the community - not just a ghost. We won't make fun of you
(although, we might tease you, a little). If you've never posted before,
your chance:


Your Comic Guide

Eva Rosenberg
http://taxmama.com        -  and please visit TaxMama's Boutique:

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=====  Continuing Discussions  =====

=== > Speaker Marketing Tip

     By Tom Antion

OK, you choke on the food, or if you fly Southwest a lot like
I do, you don't even get any food. Why not give your
seatmates some food for their minds?

I carry three of my books along for each leg of my journey.
Whoever sits next to me, or anywhere near me that looks like
a business person gets a copy. Before long I'm doing a book
signing in the aisle and people are asking me for my card.
One time on Southwest I got hired for an Arizona Association
meeting before we landed. Another time, again on Southwest
(believe it or not) I sat next to Wynona Judd and she asked
me for information on my speaker coaching services. On a
first class upgrade on United I sat next to a guy who is
President and CEO of a 150 million dollar company. By the
time we landed I was invited to his home and he offered to
personally introduce me to the VP of all seven of his
divisions. (Update: We just had dinner together in Los Angeles
last week and we are supposed to get together again in April)

Don't have a book? Make a cassette tape to give
out and follow up later. Its your choice. Complain about
the food, or feed your information to your fellow passengers.

from Tom Antion's Great Speaking Newsletter

You can subscribe FREE to Tom's newsletter 'Great Speaking'
To subscribe why not use our affiliate link (given below)


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=====  New Discussions  =====

====> Why I don't post !
(Sample answers from I-Sales)

I do not post  because I do not feel that I am  experienced
enough in the subjects under discussion. I suppose fear  is a
factor  as well  as not owning my own  business yet. I still
plug away  at Corporate America with little or no result;
however, lack  of experience and knowledge  keep me
from going out on my own.

I just do not feel qualified to post, but I am grateful for the
discussions that do occur.

Thank you again,

I have learned so much about sales from the professionals on the
I-Sales list.

But since I run a one-woman, small business, I often don't believe
I have the "sales" credentials to respond to  or refute postings.
I don't have a degree, and sales isn't the only thing I do for a living.

So I  lurk and  learn, and I'm  grateful for  it.


(Here is a summary by John Counsel of the various responses
to his 'why I don't post question' along with his responses.)

A lot of people feel that they don't have anything to say that's
worth reading -- yet almost all of them noted that they regularly
see other posters saying or asking things they've been wondering
about, too. That should tell you something.

Some feel that they're not up to the lofty standards of better-known
contributors, or that anything they say could be better said by
others. My immediate response is twofold:

1. You're not posting for the more experienced or accomplished
members of this community. You're really posting for the benefit of
others like yourself... people struggling to make a living from
on-line or off-line businesses, or in the corporate world. They
appreciate practical examples, problems, solutions, etc that are
close to home for them. Stuff they can relate to, directly and

2. Today's featured post from Shel Horowitz (extract in this issue)
illustrates something common to all the "high-flyers" I know on this list:
he's smart enough to recognise -- and use -- good ideas or insights,
regardless of the source. The real value of this community lies in what's
contributed, not who contributes it.

3. Very few posts are declined by me. I prefer to work with members,
where needed, to tune-up (or tone-down) posts that aren't acceptable
in their original form. Sometimes it takes two or three attempts to
get it right. That's not wasted time or effort, for any of us.

By the way, don't be intimidated, as some are, by the assertive,
lecturing style of many high-profile contributors. I'm as guilty as
any and, while not wanting to play the role of apologist here
(they're quite capable of arguing their own points of view), let me
explain what often happens: like many of them, I'm an author,
columnist, lecturer/trainer, management consultant, etc and my
ideas, professional expertise and opinions are sought, and paid
for, as authoritative.

That alone doesn't make them right or better. But it can be
difficult to remember the difference in editorial context when
writing on subjects about which we're seen as authoritative.
So take it all with a grain of insight. Use what's of value or
usefulness to you and your situation. And test it before you
accept anything at face value.

John Counsel (Moderator I-Sales)


====> Why I *do* post!

(This was Shel's reply to John's asking people why
they don't post.)

From: Shel Horowitz <shel@frugalfun.com>

I could be using this time to earn my usual $100 per hour --
so why am I posting instead? Why do I spend several hours
every week participating in discussion groups?

Because I'm selfish.

There are several benefits to me: professional development,
research, sources of services and products I need, and yes,
a direct marketing benefit to me in the form of clients, book
sales, and referrals.

I want this group (and others I participate in) to be the very
best it can be. I want the quality of information and discourse
to be so high that it attracts the best and the brightest in the
industry. That way, the aforementioned best and brightest
hang around to answer *my* questions. And recognize my
name, spread it around, recommend my services or info
products, and act genuinely glad to meet me if I connect
with them at conferences, etc. And provide me with a ready
resource and expectation of quality/satisfaction when I
need professional services. By participating helpfully, I
can even ask off-the-wall, off-topic questions
(on unmoderated lists)and get quick, cogent, helpful
answers. To quote John Audette, "Yoda says give,
then take." I give a lot. I get back far more than I give.


(Full text can be found at
Issue #1596)

Shel Horowitz
News releases, brochures, newsletters, ad copy,
web copy, resumes, etc.
http://www.frugalmarketing.com  -- 200+ pp. money-saving advice
"I make the world insist on knowing why you're special."


Turning Dreams into Dollars...

An ebook in which you won't find the get-rich-quick
garbage or motivational fluff that sounds good but never
works. Not too surprising, since the editors of
Internet ScamBusters are publishing it."


====> A great Reason to not post (or is it?)

Hi LaughMates,

Our own ever alert Arik (CEO - http://InternetDollar.com)
sent me back this quote.... (which I'd used in I-Laugh #68)

"Oh...I listen a lot and talk less.
You can't learn anything when you're talking."
  ~ Bing Crosby

as the ideal reason for not posting!

But just think about this....

By not posting and keeping on trying to learn you're making
the few talkers in any group talk more and listen less thus
ensuring that they learn less. So would you then really learn
anything from listening to them ??? Catch 22 again, Arik.
(It lurks behind you at every corner! :-O)

{This is true in most discussion groups, but I don't think many
moderators would admit it. I wouldn't !! ;-}

coz 7 days without a pun makes one weak


Cartoon Break

BIG trouble

Hackers !!



====> Another 2c worth from g !!

Hi LaughMates,

In addition to the points already covered by the experts,
here are a few points (and reasons directly relevant to

1) Take a frustrating situation. Imagine you want to share it,
or talk (write) about it to a few close friends. Normally,
wouldn't you love to exaggerate the frustration so that your
listeners (readers) can feel it. Now think back and compare
your own statements and the situation. Doesn't the actual
situation look less painful than your own description of it?
{If not, work on your descriptive powers ;-}

What am I getting at? That dramatizing a frustrating situation
can be a big stress reliever. And once you can dramatize it
humorously you're close to Nirvana. Test it out. Feel free to
change names or drop them so you don't get into trouble.

2) Writing, whether it is to a diary (for yourself), or a list (for
public), helps you to gather your thoughts. Of course this point
is much better explained by The Doc. He had explained this
to subscribers of Jest-in-Literature when he started the new
section writing prompts. (of course, I have an extract for you
here, as the next post)

Other than professional writers & dedicated diary writers,
most of us, after we're out of colleges and universities don't,
as Doc says, find the stimulus to write.

For me the first stimulus was to woo a wonderful woman
(and it led me to poetry and a bit of alliteration ;o) and the
next has been discussion groups. Test out I-Laugh as a stimulus
and see if you enjoy writing and if it helps your thinking processes.

If it does it'll be great both for you as well as for I-Laugh, and
once you start, as the 'time on task' method states (again refer
next post) there's no other way but better !

coz 7 days without a pun makes one weak


====> Writing and Thinking!!

Personally, I am always intrigued by things that stimulate my
thinking, and I'm especially enamored of things that might
stimulate my writing. There is a theory or belief about those
two things: writing and thinking. Some very famous people
have said, basically, that writing is thinking. There are some
who feel that the way to discover how they actually think
or feel about an issue is to write about it. I don't know
where this leaves those people who feel they think, but
they do not write. Maybe there is room for both theories.
Maybe writing is one way of thinking, but it is not the only

I know there have been times when I have not known what
my feelings are about some issue, so I write about it. On
some occasions, the results are almost shocking to me as
I discover the thoughts I have toward something.

Mark Twain said that thinking is a very difficult thing to do,
and that is why most people avoid it.


The final area that I am, by writing this, proposing to Gunjan,
is one that might help develop thinking skills and the writing
process. A secondary benefit of this item is that it helps a
person develop self-discipline regarding those two things.
Now, I know that these things are just exciting as
Fig Newtons to most of you, but hang in here a moment,

There have been gadzillions of times that I will meet a
former student after years of not seeing him. Sometimes,
though not often, I might inquire if he has continued to write.
You see, if you happen to be placed in one of my classes,
the one thing you can count on is that you will write something
at every meeting. This is because I ascribe to two theories of
learning: one is that writing is thinking; and two is that the
single method we actually know that works to improve a
person's writing is to have that person write. That last one is
known as "time on task." The more you write, the better you
get at it. Makes sense, doesn't it?

What I find out if I ask a former student this question, though,
is that, without the process of me writing the prompt that they
must respond to, they cannot find a stimulus for continuing to


(Full text can be found at
Issue - Jest in Literature - Shocking!!)

JD Lentz (The Doc)
Jest in Literature


===========  This week's Humor  ==========

Last week we were talking about attitudes ....
Check out this guys !!

A woman walks into a convenience store.  She walks straight
to the manager and asks, "Do you have any small note-books?"

"Sorry," says the manager.  "We're all out."

The woman shrugs, and asks, "Well, do you have any
mechanical pencils?"

"Nope, don't have that either," says the manager.

The woman feels her stomach rumbling and asks, "Do you
have Doritos?  Nachos?"

The manager shrugs, "Sorry."

"Hmmph.  How about Chapstick?" says the woman.

"Nope.  Don't have that."

"My Gosh!" the woman shouts, "If you don't have anything,
you should close the darn store!"

The manager shrugs, "Don't have the key."

Comments :


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